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Topics of conversation

Menon

Menon Intro- Menon s Question can virtue be taught?- Or boes it come by practice; teaching; Birth; neither teaching nor practice; or some other way?

-Socrates reaction to Menon s question- Socrates must add brains to list of qualities for which people from Thessdy are known as being good horsemen

-Having full purses

-Menon must think Socrates is inspired

-If Menon were to ask this question of any ordinary Athenian, the Athenians would say he does not know what virtue is and he could not answer the question.

-Socrates is like the ordinary Athenians because he does not know what is virtue and never met anyone who did known.

Menon s first definition of virtue Virtue is many and different for; a man (manage public business, help friends/hurt enemies, Steer clear of mischief) a woman (manage house, keep stores safe, obey husband) a child (boy/girl) the old; slave and free; every state condition of life.

Socrates critism -Socrates had asked Menon for the one virtue that was the same in all individual acts of virtue.

-the virtue that makes all indivual virtues the same

-Instead of giving him this Menon gave him; many virtues that make indiviual virtues different

Menon s second defention of Virtue Virtue is-to be able to rule men or to rule justly, because justice is virtue.

Socrates critism-Virtue is not the ability to rule men because Menon claims that slaves/children have virtue and that slave and children cannot rule others or remain slaves/children.

-Justice is a virtue(part of a larger whole) it is not virtue(the whole)

Menon s third definition of virtue-is that virtue is to desire handsome (good) things and to be able to get them.

Socrates critism-cannot be to desire handsome things because to desire handsome things is universal to all humans and that noone desires bad things because bad things makes people miserable and wretched and no one wants to be miserable.

-cannot be able to get things because getting good things just by itself is neither virtues/vicious. That getting things unjustly is a vice, and getting things justly is to get them with a bit of virtue


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